Jul 24, 2026
Pastors in the Pub?
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17 Comments
Oh you Baptists. You’d be cute if you weren’t so hooked on fantasy. It’s one thing to be all into Lord of the Rings or Anne McCaffrey—at least those are entertaining. This whole binding the conscience of believers over the fantasy that drinking alcohol is sinful or not in its own way Good though? That is one boring fantasy to be obsessed over.
Seriously. The idea that drinking (in itself) is sinful is so outlandish that it’s hard to know where to start. I do have an article exploring the biblical use of wine (focusing on Hebrew and Greek terms) that I was preparing for the BLB but I never sought to put it up because of how touchy people are.
I could post it as a comment here if you like, but its 1383 words long. Interesting reading if the topic interests you though. Any takers?
Last semester our pastor held a couple guys nights out at a local pub. I didn’t get a chance to go, but I’m all for it.
Dane, what’s BLB?
The Blue Letter Bible. Seth works there.
I keep coming back to this article and every time I just get more and more steamed. These are leaders of the church. People whose lives are to be devoted to thinking and speaking biblically. For them to approach alcohol with such a flatly unbiblical posture infuriates me. “A critically important resolution, in light of some pastors who now openly boast of imbibing alcohol”? This from the the president of the denomination?
How is it possible that this is even an issue?
This is as bad as the PCA ministers who tried to get the General Assembly to “encourage all her officers and members to remove their children from the public schools and see to it that they receive a thoroughly Christian education.” Only in the PCA’s case, the overture was offered by a fringe contingent. With the SBC, we have majority agreement. Such a hurtful, undisciplined stance.
The CT article off-handedly offers a flat rebuttal to those supporting moderation against abstention: “Can we really call people to repentance while nursing a rum and Coke?”
Answer: Sure. Why not? What has one to do with the other? One might as well ask Can we really call people to repentance while in our pocket our iPhone alerts us of an incoming message? Seeing as how driving under the influence of a mobile phone is as dangerous as driving under the influence of a beer or three.
The fact is: a Christian who drinks conscientiously and in moderation is a better example of grace and self-control than the hardline abstentionist, who really only proves his ability to hold to a law (and a sub-culturally generated one at that).
If we are to abstain from alcohol because we may be tempted to abuse it, we should also abstain from wives for that is a relationship far easier for men to abuse.
I am one of those Pastors that goto pubs and drink. We have actually had bible studies with a cigar and beer in hand. Our conviction is that it is not sin to partake but it is sin to be drunk. Through this effort to be authentic in our and clearly teaching the gospel and the liberties it provides, we have been able to reach a large number of 18 to 35 yr olds who were unchurched or dechurched. If we love the scriptures, we have to be willing to believe it all, even when it flys in the face of our own self righteous religious sensibilities.
Heaths last blog post..Upcoming Sermons
So what about you SBC CAPC people? What do you think of your denomination’s adherence to abstention policy?
Do you support it and if so, do you maintain the position to be a pragmatic one, a biblical one, a whimsical one? And how would you defend your support and would you prosecute against the other side? Do you take a Piper role and say that drinking alcohol is not a sin, but let’s all as a congregation agree to abstain?
Or do you not support your denomination’s stance? Why? And if so, do you plan to do something about your disagreement? What recourses are there within your particular denomination?
These questions go out to you specifically David, Rich, and Ben. What about you Charles? DTS, if I recall, has a strict policy against the consumption of alcohol as well.
Stir much? ;-)
Scotts last blog post..My Sentiments Exactly
Oh, I try. But apparently to no good effect. Anyway, David started it with the stirring.
I am SBC… though probably not for long, as it looks like our association is getting ready to boot us now. For a denomination that says it loves scripture, it sure does try to dance around what scripture says about this topic. You have to do exegetical and historical acrobatics to support the fundamentalist SBC argument. It boils down to a distrust of the Holy Spirit to perform it’s sanctifying work in believers heart and the promotion of a Christian sub culture that creates isolationist attitudes.
Heaths last blog post..We Are Called to be Active Apostles
I’m with you there Heath. I’m PCA and though we’ve never had any issue with thoroughly enjoying a good drink in Christian sobriety, my denomination has its own pieces of Scripture that it likes to dance around (like the ordination of female deacons).
I think it’s shameful that ministers who promote the Christian use of alcohol (as Christ himself plainly did) should be unwelcome in your denomination. It is, I think, a black eye for the SBC. And one that needs to be dealt with before the denomination loses all credibility as a Bible-believing arm of the church.
I mean, sure, the SBC is a Christian denomination, but it continues to show that it doesn’t really take the Word all that seriously. And that’s just too bad.
You’re both right, it’s maddening and ridiculous the way the denomination is not just dancing around the issue, but enforcing it in incredibly unbiblical ways. I guess I would just point out that there are plenty of people within the convention that are addressing this issue.
I keep trying to tell myself that the alcohol thing a relatively trivial issue, compared to female pastors, the nature of the gospel itself, homosexuality, etc. But The Dane’s right, this is merely a symptom of the low view of scripture and high view of tradition and man-made, cultural law within the convention.
Of course, the major problem is that many of those guys are just completely unaware. Our denomination has so much pride leftover from the Great Conservative Takeover of the 80s that we’ve told ourselves that we’ve fought the Battle of the Bible and won, period. And a lot of those liberal guys we kicked out drank, so it must be wrong, right?
But the good news is that there are increasing rumblings within our convention that maybe we’re not so crazy about the bible as a denomination. I think this is the right approach, to address the issue of scripture and point out ways that legalism and tradition often trump it.
On a personal note, Heath, that sucks.
Oh come on Dane, you can’t ask me to respond to that question. I just wanted to stir up the debate and run away and hide. Now I am going to have to leave my answer out there for everyone to read.
Well for starters I am no longer with the SBC. I don’t hate them, or anything like that, and value greatly the education they gave me, but nonetheless am glad to no longer by one. And in lieu of the fact that I am no longer bound to my seminary covenant I do, upon occasion, enjoy a nice thick and tasty Guinness.
Hey discussion, that’s what I like to see!
Do you guys see any solutions within the SBC on this? Is there any hope to convince the leaders that they’re pointing the gun at the wrong thing or will the SBC simply have to wait for its leaders to die off before it can revisit the issue from a biblical standpoint?
So what’s the temperature like on the young seminarian end of the spectrum? Do the future leaders of the SBC largely agree with the status quo policy? Or are they largely disenchanted with this evidence of a low view of Scripture?
I’d say largely disenchanted. And I hesitate to speak for the possibility to convince existing leaders. But we try.
Well, it’s worth mentioning, Seth, that the SBC isn’t like the PCA, politically speaking. I’m fairly certain that (strictly speaking) the worst the leadership of the SBC can do is make a “strong recommendation” that SBC pastors abstain. Compliance isn’t (strictly speaking) required. There’s no presbyteries to report to, no church courts. Just congregations. If anyone had the authority to burden a minister with such a childish load, it would only be one’s parishioners.
Of course, it’s not like these “recommendations” are meaningless. I’m sure it means something to some churches, somewhere. But at most, I think (though I might be exagerrating this, and Rich can correct me if I’m wrong) the sway of such a recommendation is as powerful (or weak) as knowing how most people feel about an issue.
Scotts last blog post..My Sentiments Exactly
That is worth mentioning Scott, thanks.
This isn’t to say that boozehound baptists can still enjoy the full benefits of SBC membership. The SBC is technically not a denomination – it’s more like a very, very large mission organization. (I think it’s fair to say that missiology is central to SBC theology – which is not a complaint any more than it is a complaint to say that ecclesiology is central to Roman Catholic theology.) So, while one may be a Southern Baptist pastor, faithfully contributing to the Cooperative Program, one’s choice to openly imbibe in the demon’s drink still excludes one from participating in a number of the programs the SBC maintains (college, seminary, many positions in both the North American and the International Mission Board, et cetera). (I once worked for the North American Mission Board – NAMB – with a great guy who had to work without pay for six months so that he could finally honestly report that he had been without drink for a period of six months when he filled out the paper work for a two year position.)
Scotts last blog post..My Sentiments Exactly
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